"I'm not in the mood for your excuses. It was the wrong thing to do. Not that you're capable of doing anything but."
Reno wasn't a friend, and Tseng absolutely wasn't either, but he's still not happy about it. They were working to make things right, for... better or worse, as far as Shinra Inc is concerned, and they were a big help with the remnants. Not to mention he has nothing but impatience for Sephiroth murdering anyone.
For the millionth time, he's pissed off that he's helping him now. Nostrils flaring, he looks up. Reaches to push Sephiroth's hair back from his face, then sticks the bandage he's cut smaller overtop of the crescent under his left eye. It's not much, but at least it covers the mark. The downside is he's left frowning and looking Sephiroth straight in the eye again, when he'd really rather not.
And now he's reached a point where he's being lectured by Cloud. Right or wrong, it didn't matter. Reno caught him at a bad time. Though he supposes maybe ... in a way it might --
Ugh. First Zack manages to get under his skin and now his nemesis. And they both have the same blasted blue eyes that somehow mirror each other. This time, he breaks their locked gaze to look at the far wall or at least anything but the man in front of him.
"What should I be like then? Tell me what it is you want."
"You could try not being one," Cloud answers, laden with sarcasm. And yet... not. Not sarcastic at all. What does he want? That'd be a start, at the very least. Try not fucking murdering everyone you come into contact with. He shakes his head at himself, sighing. It's a waste of his breath. There's no chance in a million years he'd get his hopes up that he'd ever get through to Sephiroth, but he's got nothing else to do but say it anyway.
Reaching for the other bandage, he does the same for the crescent carved under his right eye. Poetic justice. He doesn't agree with Tseng's methods here, either, but at least he understands what he was going for. And now it's all covered up, and Cloud feels like he's making an ass of himself, tucking Sephiroth's hair behind his ear so he can slap that second bandage on. And... what, try to convince him not to be evil?
Stupid.
"There's more to life than being pissed off about what happened to you all the time. I would know."
He isn't the only one who feels awkward about all of us. Cloud is touching his face and his hair. Well, it's more annoying than awkward. Or at least that's what he's going to tell himself. Because all of this is stupid and what was even going on in his own head coming here.
He hates it. He hates all of it.
... But he looks back to Cloud.
"Yet you're pissed off about all of it right now. Your anger over everything I've ever done burns bright. You and I both cannot so easily let go. Even if we wanted to."
Well, alright. He's no saint, he hasn't let it all go. But he's trying to, and that's a start. Forgiveness, right? Being forgiven, forgiving others... he said he was going to try. It's not something he's going to be any good at in just a day. Or however many days it's been.
Haltingly, Cloud takes his hand from Sephiroth's face. That's about all he can do for him, at least for right now. He wonders if Aerith would approve. Or Zack. Would they... surely they would, right? After a moment he drops that thought and picks up a new one, instead, looking up.
"You ever try forgiveness?"
Wow. That's the stupidest fucking thing he's ever said. He might as well have asked Sephiroth if he's ever smoked weed. Fuck this. He shakes his head.
"I forgive you," he started, "Zack's response after I told him what I had done." To her. To Aerith. When he was trying so hard to push him away from his still, futile attempt at reminding Sephiroth about how they were once friends.
He shakes his head. These conversations were going to haunt him forever. It's so hard to ignore all the thoughts that conflict and clash inside his head. Who he is. Who he was. What the apparent future or past may entail. It's all a giant mess.
"Who do I even have to forgive?" That is a legitimate question. Humanity? He supposes the ones who truly wronged him are now all gone. The rest aren't really deserving of his ire. His hate.
Why is he even thinking like this? Of course humanity should suffer. Everyone should and remember that it is him who causes their pain. Pain. Anger. Hate. But why is that so hard to hold onto right now?
Well... then, that answers that. He's not sure specifically which what I've done Sephiroth is referring to, or if it was just everything. But Zack would have that down to a mastered skill, wouldn't he? Forgiving someone like Sephiroth, in spite of everything. Cloud wishes he could be like him, just like he always had, but it's not that simple. They aren't the same people. And what they went through wasn't the same, either. Zack didn't watch his home burn, his mother beg for her life, he didn't see Aerith get cut down. And—ugh, everything else. It's easy for Zack to say. Not so much for him.
Sephiroth's question makes Cloud even quieter still. What made Sephiroth the way he is... even he can't comment on it fully. There's only so much he truly understands about what went wrong with him. Part of that is because he never wanted to understand. He just wanted someone to answer for what happened to his home. "Maybe it isn't who so much as what. It isn't just Shinra, and what they did... it's everything."
Zack was in fact, overly persistent with it despite Sephiroth's attempt to deter him. Cloud does not nearly have the reason to be, which is why this conversation almost seems like on more even ground. Instead of Zack's full force of goodness attempting to slam into him and force the idea. Not that he hadn't managed to accomplish anything. Sephiroth's thoughts would not be as scattered as they are if not for everything that happened in their encounter.
Whereas Cloud wanted just wanted a single person to hold accountable for what happened, Sephiroth wished to hold everything to blame. Both so much alike in that regard but so very different otherwise.
"I am beyond the experiments performed. The deception. The lies that hid the truth for so long. They were looking to create a monster and that is what they achieved. But I would not have my strength and power otherwise. Though I suppose Mother is the one who actually granted me my strength." Yes. Mother. Jenova. He hasn't forgotten that part despite all these conversations.
The part about his mother, but god forbid he go there. They're already on such tenuous terms here, if they get into it it'll just be a damn mess. Then again, maybe that's what he wants, actually. Just pick a fight, draw swords, get this over with. Except—Sephiroth is in no state to fight him. It'd hardly be a battle, and he'd just wind up running him off. Right back to Zack, maybe? Or into hiding while he recovers, where he'll be like a sick, cornered animal, likely to lash out. Or maybe a sitting duck for the rest of the Turks.
Ugh. No option is a good option. Except for the one where everyone and everything just stops doing anything stupid and he gets to be left alone in peace like he wanted. Which will never happen.
"Jenova's only the half of it. The rest is wanting to be strong. You did the things you did because you felt them."
That is probably for the best. As that would start some sort of argument. Jenova is the one piece of family that he has left to cling to. Even if on many levels she was just a dead hunk of cells that were mixed into his as he grew and developed.
When did this conversation turn around to Cloud trying to reason with him so much? Another sigh.
Even if he wants to argue, Cloud isn't exactly wrong. He did so well because that is what he wanted. He enjoyed being the hero. Sharping his skills with the sword. Even the time spent with the other 1sts. Despite all the secret underhanded ways of Shinra they did help a lot of people over the years.
Cloud answers that with a vague mm, almost as if he agrees. Yeah, he... wanted to be something like that, too. And it was largely because of Sephiroth. Now he knows he's not the only one, and all that time he spent feeling different and special—honestly, he ain't shit and never was. Or that's how he sees himself. What ended up happening, the destiny he got swept up in, wasn't it more a case of wrong place, wrong time? Whatever, does it even matter anymore?
"I... had to forgive myself." He'd rather not tell Sephiroth about this. But he's goaded him into saying plenty this evening, so maybe it's fair play. And besides, he has a point. He's going somewhere with this, and it's not about him. He's just awkward about getting there. "I don't know—I can't tell you what to think or how to feel. We're not the same."
God he fucking hopes not.
"But maybe you do, too." Awkward pause. God, it sounds stupid. He thinks everything he says sounds kinda stupid, though. "Just a suggestion."
Everyone got swept up in destiny. Whereas Cloud wished to be different and special, Sephiroth always felt that way and wanted to be normal. Not a borderline outcast. Not a stranger standing outside looking in on everyone else.
Finding out the truth simply gave him justification for how he felt all along.
His gaze snaps back to Cloud, but it's not hard it's questioning. "Why? What have you done to be in need of forgiveness?"
Well, other than killing him, but he doubts that Cloud needed to forgive himself over that. As much as hate filled his spirit over what happened. Over his death, how someone who did not seem to share his strength. A lowly infantryman took him down. And then later again. But Cloud is not as originally believed. Not a failure to be tossed aside as Hojo thought. He's Sephiroth's perfect foil. The only one who can truly match his strength.
While in the lifestream his thoughts always went back to Cloud. Even here, now it's still the same. Is that why Cloud is getting to him so much?
Cloud's returned gaze is sullen, even annoyed. You really have to ask? He doesn't want to talk failures and struggles with the person responsible for causing them. But then... that's just it, in a way. He had to forgive himself because of his issues, not because of what Sephiroth did. Clearly, he has the strength to stand up to him now. But he didn't before. He didn't when it mattered.
"I just wasn't strong enough," is all he eventually allows himself to answer with, for a moment. Not strong enough to save Aerith or even Zack. Not strong enough to do something about the struggle for the Planet until it was essentially too late. Not strong enough to understand that there wasn't ever anything he could do to change things in the first place. If any of this could've been prevented, it would have been. And yet... still. "Not strong enough to face reality. Now... it's a little too real."
Cloud did become strong. Whether through his hatred or pure determination to save his friends didn't matter. He bested Sephiroth not once but three times. No one else could even come close to claiming such a feat. It was odd to look back at it now. Even when he attempted to control him or convince him of being nothing more than an empty puppet, he still broke free. None of the other clones could.
"Our experiences make us strong. For better or worse. Without them we would not be who we are now. Whether that is good or bad, well ... that depends on how you view it." He thinks back to everything he learned (thanks to Zack). About changing the timeline. About what that really means. For him. For Cloud. For all of it.
His head dips down and he leans forward slightly.
"The only reason I did not disappear is you. My ability to survive in the lifestream. My strength to come back. It all revolves around you. I knew that even if I lost my memories to the lifestream ... even if I lost myself. I could find it all again just as long as even a small part of your consciousness remembers who I am. You are the core of my existence. I suppose in a way, that is why we are having this conversation now."
"Is that supposed to be comforting?" Cloud mutters. Guess maybe that's fair. His advice wasn't particularly helpful, either, but at least he's not responsible for the persisting presence of the biggest threat to this planet coming back over and over and over again. Like a bad cold.
Sephiroth leans forward and Cloud glances up, rolls his eyes, and then pushes at his shoulder to tip him right back over onto the bed again. It really doesn't take much of a shove. It's weird to see Sephiroth so flimsy. He probably should be gentler, but tell that to the dumb shit he just said.
Unfortunately for Cloud, he's mostly his bad cold.
Before Sephiroth can open his mouth to say anything more he's shoved back down again. Really. Does this seriously need to keep happening? Cloud's been bossing him around since he got here and ... Yeah he really only has himself to blame for that.
Sleep is probably a good idea. Give his wounds more time to heal. The turks probably won't attempt to jump him here, not with Cloud around.
"It's been a very enlightening conversation ... Cloud," at least when he says that he closes his eyes.
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no subject
Reno wasn't a friend, and Tseng absolutely wasn't either, but he's still not happy about it. They were working to make things right, for... better or worse, as far as Shinra Inc is concerned, and they were a big help with the remnants. Not to mention he has nothing but impatience for Sephiroth murdering anyone.
For the millionth time, he's pissed off that he's helping him now. Nostrils flaring, he looks up. Reaches to push Sephiroth's hair back from his face, then sticks the bandage he's cut smaller overtop of the crescent under his left eye. It's not much, but at least it covers the mark. The downside is he's left frowning and looking Sephiroth straight in the eye again, when he'd really rather not.
"You don't have to be like this, you know."
no subject
And now he's reached a point where he's being lectured by Cloud. Right or wrong, it didn't matter. Reno caught him at a bad time. Though he supposes maybe ... in a way it might --
Ugh. First Zack manages to get under his skin and now his nemesis. And they both have the same blasted blue eyes that somehow mirror each other. This time, he breaks their locked gaze to look at the far wall or at least anything but the man in front of him.
"What should I be like then? Tell me what it is you want."
no subject
Reaching for the other bandage, he does the same for the crescent carved under his right eye. Poetic justice. He doesn't agree with Tseng's methods here, either, but at least he understands what he was going for. And now it's all covered up, and Cloud feels like he's making an ass of himself, tucking Sephiroth's hair behind his ear so he can slap that second bandage on. And... what, try to convince him not to be evil?
Stupid.
"There's more to life than being pissed off about what happened to you all the time. I would know."
no subject
He hates it. He hates all of it.
... But he looks back to Cloud.
"Yet you're pissed off about all of it right now. Your anger over everything I've ever done burns bright. You and I both cannot so easily let go. Even if we wanted to."
no subject
Well, alright. He's no saint, he hasn't let it all go. But he's trying to, and that's a start. Forgiveness, right? Being forgiven, forgiving others... he said he was going to try. It's not something he's going to be any good at in just a day. Or however many days it's been.
Haltingly, Cloud takes his hand from Sephiroth's face. That's about all he can do for him, at least for right now. He wonders if Aerith would approve. Or Zack. Would they... surely they would, right? After a moment he drops that thought and picks up a new one, instead, looking up.
"You ever try forgiveness?"
Wow. That's the stupidest fucking thing he's ever said. He might as well have asked Sephiroth if he's ever smoked weed. Fuck this. He shakes his head.
"Never mind. Forget it."
no subject
He shakes his head. These conversations were going to haunt him forever. It's so hard to ignore all the thoughts that conflict and clash inside his head. Who he is. Who he was. What the apparent future or past may entail. It's all a giant mess.
"Who do I even have to forgive?" That is a legitimate question. Humanity? He supposes the ones who truly wronged him are now all gone. The rest aren't really deserving of his ire. His hate.
Why is he even thinking like this? Of course humanity should suffer. Everyone should and remember that it is him who causes their pain. Pain. Anger. Hate. But why is that so hard to hold onto right now?
no subject
Sephiroth's question makes Cloud even quieter still. What made Sephiroth the way he is... even he can't comment on it fully. There's only so much he truly understands about what went wrong with him. Part of that is because he never wanted to understand. He just wanted someone to answer for what happened to his home. "Maybe it isn't who so much as what. It isn't just Shinra, and what they did... it's everything."
Gee. How helpful.
"Sorry. That's... pretty broad, I guess."
no subject
Whereas Cloud wanted just wanted a single person to hold accountable for what happened, Sephiroth wished to hold everything to blame. Both so much alike in that regard but so very different otherwise.
"I am beyond the experiments performed. The deception. The lies that hid the truth for so long. They were looking to create a monster and that is what they achieved. But I would not have my strength and power otherwise. Though I suppose Mother is the one who actually granted me my strength." Yes. Mother. Jenova. He hasn't forgotten that part despite all these conversations.
no subject
The part about his mother, but god forbid he go there. They're already on such tenuous terms here, if they get into it it'll just be a damn mess. Then again, maybe that's what he wants, actually. Just pick a fight, draw swords, get this over with. Except—Sephiroth is in no state to fight him. It'd hardly be a battle, and he'd just wind up running him off. Right back to Zack, maybe? Or into hiding while he recovers, where he'll be like a sick, cornered animal, likely to lash out. Or maybe a sitting duck for the rest of the Turks.
Ugh. No option is a good option. Except for the one where everyone and everything just stops doing anything stupid and he gets to be left alone in peace like he wanted. Which will never happen.
"Jenova's only the half of it. The rest is wanting to be strong. You did the things you did because you felt them."
no subject
When did this conversation turn around to Cloud trying to reason with him so much? Another sigh.
Even if he wants to argue, Cloud isn't exactly wrong. He did so well because that is what he wanted. He enjoyed being the hero. Sharping his skills with the sword. Even the time spent with the other 1sts. Despite all the secret underhanded ways of Shinra they did help a lot of people over the years.
"Yes. I wanted to be a hero."
no subject
"I... had to forgive myself." He'd rather not tell Sephiroth about this. But he's goaded him into saying plenty this evening, so maybe it's fair play. And besides, he has a point. He's going somewhere with this, and it's not about him. He's just awkward about getting there. "I don't know—I can't tell you what to think or how to feel. We're not the same."
God he fucking hopes not.
"But maybe you do, too." Awkward pause. God, it sounds stupid. He thinks everything he says sounds kinda stupid, though. "Just a suggestion."
no subject
Finding out the truth simply gave him justification for how he felt all along.
His gaze snaps back to Cloud, but it's not hard it's questioning. "Why? What have you done to be in need of forgiveness?"
Well, other than killing him, but he doubts that Cloud needed to forgive himself over that. As much as hate filled his spirit over what happened. Over his death, how someone who did not seem to share his strength. A lowly infantryman took him down. And then later again. But Cloud is not as originally believed. Not a failure to be tossed aside as Hojo thought. He's Sephiroth's perfect foil. The only one who can truly match his strength.
While in the lifestream his thoughts always went back to Cloud. Even here, now it's still the same. Is that why Cloud is getting to him so much?
no subject
"I just wasn't strong enough," is all he eventually allows himself to answer with, for a moment. Not strong enough to save Aerith or even Zack. Not strong enough to do something about the struggle for the Planet until it was essentially too late. Not strong enough to understand that there wasn't ever anything he could do to change things in the first place. If any of this could've been prevented, it would have been. And yet... still. "Not strong enough to face reality. Now... it's a little too real."
no subject
"Our experiences make us strong. For better or worse. Without them we would not be who we are now. Whether that is good or bad, well ... that depends on how you view it." He thinks back to everything he learned (thanks to Zack). About changing the timeline. About what that really means. For him. For Cloud. For all of it.
His head dips down and he leans forward slightly.
"The only reason I did not disappear is you. My ability to survive in the lifestream. My strength to come back. It all revolves around you. I knew that even if I lost my memories to the lifestream ... even if I lost myself. I could find it all again just as long as even a small part of your consciousness remembers who I am. You are the core of my existence. I suppose in a way, that is why we are having this conversation now."
no subject
Sephiroth leans forward and Cloud glances up, rolls his eyes, and then pushes at his shoulder to tip him right back over onto the bed again. It really doesn't take much of a shove. It's weird to see Sephiroth so flimsy. He probably should be gentler, but tell that to the dumb shit he just said.
"Shut up and go to sleep."
no subject
Before Sephiroth can open his mouth to say anything more he's shoved back down again. Really. Does this seriously need to keep happening? Cloud's been bossing him around since he got here and ... Yeah he really only has himself to blame for that.
Sleep is probably a good idea. Give his wounds more time to heal. The turks probably won't attempt to jump him here, not with Cloud around.
"It's been a very enlightening conversation ... Cloud," at least when he says that he closes his eyes.